Pack Searching is a term in the sports card community that means figuring out which packs of cards in a box contain the sought after game-used and autograph cards without actually opening up the packs. If you look for information on pack searching on the Internet you won’t find much because it’s considered a taboo and an off-topic in the sports card community. My goal with this article is to put an end to that thinking. I’m going to explain what exactly pack searching is, how to pack search, debunk what I consider to be some pack searching myths, and discuss ways of stopping pack searching. This article should be looked at as the first in depth study into the pack searching phenomenon. Whether you are against pack searchers or you support the idea of pack searching, I suggest reading this entire article to get a better idea of all sides of the issue.
What Is Pack Searching?
As stated in the introduction, pack searching is the act of finding which packs in a box of cards contain certain insert cards, without actually opening the pack of course. Commonly pack searchers are looking for packs which contain a game-used card or an autograph card. Is this actually possible? Yes it’s definitely possible and I will discuss the methods to successfully pack search later in this article.
Hot Packs and Hot Pack Secrets
Typically on Ebay you’ll see sellers offering “hot packs”. These packs will be guaranteed to contain an autograph or a game-used card. Although it may seem impossible that the seller can guarantee such things, these hot packs are actually legit if sold by a reputable seller. If you look at the seller’s feedback you’ll notice a lot of positive feedback for their hot packs. You’re probably wondering how it’s possible for someone to know that a certain insert is in the packs, the answer is that the seller is pack searching.
Examples:
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2007 07 TOPPS DPP FOOTBALL GU JERSEY OR AUTO HOT PACK! US $9.95 Auction Ends: Monday May-12-2008 15:20:10 PDT Bid on this Item | Buy this Item | Watch this Item |
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2007 07 TOPPS ALLEN & GINTER Auto / Gu / Plate HOT PACK US $1.04 (2 Bids) Auction Ends: Monday May-12-2008 18:13:53 PDT Bid on this Item | Buy this Item | Watch this Item |
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2007 07 TOPPS ALLEN & GINTER Auto / Gu / Plate HOT PACK US $0.99 (0 Bid) Auction Ends: Monday May-12-2008 18:14:42 PDT Bid on this Item | Buy this Item | Watch this Item |
You’ll also notice that many sellers offer e-books of Hot Pack Secrets on eBay!
Basically the seller offers an e-book that gives instructions how to pack search so you can find the hot packs yourself. If you purchase one of these off Ebay the seller will send it to you, but having read several of these e-books myself, I would highly suggest staying away from them. The information contained is either old or already very obvious. Hot Pack Secrets should be viewed as a quick money scam. If you want to see for yourself go ahead, sellers usually only charge a few dollars and I’m sure you have wasted money in worse ways before.
How To Pack Search
So now that you know what pack searching is, and you know the ways in which pack searchers are making a business out of it, I’ll explain the methods in which pack searchers operate today.
There are three main methods of pack searching that are used:
- Bend & Twist: Some retail packs of sports cards contain thick cardboard decoy cards inserted to thwart pack searchers, but some products don’t contain decoys at all. For packs that don’t contain decoy cards you can employ the bend & twist method. You simply hold the pack in two hands, each hand holding an opposite corner of the pack, then you bend and twist the pack. After bending and twisting a number of packs you will notice that some will show some resistance to your bending. This means that there is a thicker card in the pack, usually a game-used card. Clearly you want to be careful to bend and twist lightly so you’re not damaging the cards inside the pack. This is the simplest method of pack searching that yields results.
- Fanning: A more successful method of pack searching, and one that can be used on packs that contain decoys is fanning. As the name suggests you are going to fan the cards so you can feel each one. But how can you fan the cards while they are in a sealed pack? This takes some practice but the first step is to push all of the cards to one side of the pack, as far as they can go. Next you want to push each card to the other side of the pack one by one with your thumb. As you push each card you want to feel the thickness with your thumb. Eventually you will feel a card of a different thickness than the rest. It could be a decoy or it could be a game-used card. Feel as many packs as you can and you should be able to differentiate between the decoys and the actual hits.
- Weighing: The previous two methods are really only useful for searching for game-used cards. This next method is not only a much more successful way of pack searching, but will also discover which packs contain autograph cards. As the name implies your going to weigh each pack. To weigh the packs I suggest buying a hand-held portable digital scale. I personally have an Escali hand-held digital scale that measures in .01 grams. Escali digital scales can easily be purchased on eBay!
With precision like that you will be able to differentiate between a pack that has all regular cards in it and a pack that has all regular cards, but one card having an autograph sticker on it. The steps are simple, weigh every pack and observe which packs have the different weights, those packs contain your hits.
Pack Searching Myths
So know that you know how to pack search I’d like to discuss whether pack searching is really all it’s cracked up to be. It sounds almost too good to be true that you can walk into your local Target or Wal-Mart, buy one pack and come out with a game-used card doesn’t it? That’s partly because it is too good to be true, and I’ll tell you why.
- The Odds Are Against You: A typical hobby box of sports cards usually contains an average of four hits. A retail box on the other hand usually contains only one hit, two hits on some products, but never more than that. Assuming you are perfect at pack searching (and if you’re a beginner you won’t be), who’s to say that someone hasn’t come before you and purchased the one pack in the box that contains the hit. To really have a good chance at pack searching you have to search an unopened box. Otherwise you will most likely convince yourself there is a hit in a box that really doesn’t have one and you’ll end up taking home a decoy that tricked you. To make matters worse you’re also up against other pack searchers and shameless kids who will slightly rip open every pack to find the hits.
- How Do The Hot Pack Sellers Do It Then?: After explaining how the odds are really stacked up against you, you’re probably wondering how one person can constantly sell ten hot packs on Ebay. These people are insiders in the industry. They could work for the distribution company that supplies cards to department stores. Or they could own a hobby shop themselves. Whoever the person is, they have the ability to sit down with a box of cards and spend as much time as they need to weigh each pack. Since they have the entire box they know ahead of time how many hits are in each product and can work long and hard to find those hits. These are also people who have a method of getting rid of the non-hit packs, i.e. the distributor bringing them to a store or a hobby shop owner selling the packs to poor customers who think they have a chance at a great hit.
- So I Should Just Buy Hot Packs On Ebay?: Yes and No. If you are simply interested in pulling a game-used card from a pack, hot packs are really great value. If you’re hoping to pull a once in a lifetime hit from a hot pack, you need to think again. Remember, professional pack searchers weigh each and every pack. If they come across a pack that has a patch in it or a similar hit, it will weigh differently from a regular game-used card and the searcher will most likely keep the pack for themselves.
How To Stop Pack Searchers
With everything being said above, I don’t feel that pack searching is a problem that is ruining the hobby as other members of the community will make you believe. Nine times out of ten it only affects retail products and doesn’t make it’s way into the hobby. If you don’t want to have to worry about pack searchers, shop at a local hobby shop, online hobby shop, or card show. You should really be supporting the brick and mortar card shops while they’re still around anyways. Any hobby shop owner who takes part in pack searching will most likely not have a successful business anyways.
If you like the convenience of being able to walk into your local Target-type store and want to curb pack searching, you have options. Lost prevention employees are often bored at work, if you suspect someone is pack searching, try to find a member of lost prevention, they will be more than happy to deal with the culprit. Remember, there is nothing illegal about pack searching. It is similar to testing which piece of fruit is ripe at a supermarket by squeezing each one, the pack searcher is touching each pack to see which one is ripe for the buying. You can fib however and say that the pack search is damaging each piece of merchandise that he touches.
Conclusion
I hope this article was helpful in lifting the ban on speaking about pack searching. It may or may not be a problem, but it happens, and we shouldn’t pretend it doesn’t in hopes that it will cease to happen. There was a lot of information in this article, and there is still a lot that could be said. Feel free to leave comments if you have any questions and I will answer them the best that I can. Thanks for the read! Shout outs to everyone on SportsCardForum and the guys over at The Backstop.
Interesting post. I rarely pick up cards anymore. It seems it all died and packs are so expensive. A hobby box is now over $100 which just is too much for baseball cards.
I don’t have much. My best card is a Tony Gwyn Rookie. I did collect some Hummer Car special cards for football. I might have a few other decent ones, including an Emmitt Smith rookie rated 8.
I haven’t looked at my cards in ages.
Just for the hell of it, I used to go spend $50 at Target and buy those $29.99 boxes. Rarely did they get me anything so I stopped. I would get 20 Buddy Carlisle or Mike Hampton cards.
One thing I always wondered the worth of are these 1991 or 1992 Upper Deck (I think upper deck) Photo Card. They are super sized card. I never even opened it. I know Ken Griffey is in there. I can’t remember who else, but I also think Cal Ripken is in there. A few up and commers who became no one. Unopened plastic.
Hello –
I just was reading this article to my husband. We both found it interesting.
One of the guys he works with also told him of using a pin to make slight holes in the foil and peeling it back to check on the card. This was evident in a certain brand because they placed the most valuable card on the bottom on the back. Natually this happened a long time ago, cards have certainly changed and the packs have gotten expensive, more than some kids get for a weekly allowance.
Anyways, I surfed on from BE and we thought this article was great.
Thanks for taking the time to write it and educating the public.
Just got done reading, and I’m not so sure you should be giving these secrets away. Yes, people may find them at other sites, but the sports card industry is fighting pack searching, and your article seems to endorse it. I for one am against pack searching, as it rips off everyone not doing it, whether they are grown ups getting a pack, or a kid that saved up their allowance. Everyone should have an equal shot at a jersey or auto’d card, and pack searchers take away from that. They undermine the industry, and it’s something that needs to be fixed.
Brandon,
I’m not endorsing pack searching. The article is tell-all, it’s up the reader to make a decision. People ripping off other people isn’t anything new in the hobby though. I can remember being a young kid at my local card shows and getting ripped off on trades by older people who had no problem taken advantage of someone else. Clearly I didn’t know at the time but looking back on those early days of collecting I see that it happened a lot. This is kind of the same thing, people have no problem ripping off other people if it helps themselves out in the end, and I guess that is a bigger sociological issue.
As far as Pack Feeling being an issue. If you believe it is, I suggest supporting local hobby shops in every way possible. If you live somewhere that doesn’t have a local hobby shop, there are always online hobby shops.
Personally, the only times I ever buy single retail packs anymore is if I want to see what a new product is like. Other than that I only buy blaster boxes from retail stores. These boxes are shrink wrapped so you know if someone has been searching the contents.
Keep posting your comments!
Good stuff.
I just got back into the hobby after a long hiatus. And recently I came in contact with a “hot pack” seller. I bought some packs from him just to see how it operates. It was just base product, but to no surprise the hits were boring. Nothing great at all. Maybe this was a coincidence, and maybe not.
But I got to talking to this seller online because he seemed like a cool guy and communicated well in the transaction. I kind of needled him about his methods and he was really defensive. I got to learning that he didn’t even collect cards! He was just in it purely to make money.
I thought this was really lame, and it was kind of disheartening to find out. Here I am, Mr. Naive, who is passionate about sports and the hobby, not even realizing how scandalous it can all be.
The only retail that I ever buy are the blaster boxes. I have gotten some hits, but of course you can’t expect the best pulls from retail. My question is, are these blasters tamper-proof, or can they be purchased and then returned to the retailer searched?
Thanks.
I think that pack searching is really good, because you dont have to waste all that money buying bad packs. As for kids who dont know how to search then they should go on ebay and but or just stick to pokemon.
Great article.
Even with some companies doing things like putting decoys and other countermeasures in packs, other companies are doing everyone a disservice by making their pack wrappers transparent. Upper deck even produces retail product with decoys in transparent wrappers….I remember in ‘96 when the Mantle Chrome Reprints were new, you could see right thru the side of the wrapper and see the finest card as a black stripe among the white edged cards.
Another problem is with the Topps cards and the authenticity seals they place on the backs of the Auto cards. Those are very easy to find and are usually at the edges of the cards making fanning a useful method for finding these.
I think that companies are making a half-hearted effort to curtail pack searching. The most effective method of preventing searching is making the cards indistinguishable from the commons, either by the use of redemptions or autographs ON THE CARD with NO authenticity seal.
Even the retail blister packs you mention can and are being searched with similar methods you mention. The weighing method would obviously work but one other method you left out is pinching the packs (which works for the blisters but is more difficult). This method involves squeezing the pack between the thumb and forefinger and running your fingers along the pack as if sealing a zip-lock. Since the cards with jerseys and autos have a unique thickness where the jersey is, the pack will be thicker at that point and you can feel the transition.
I agree that the only way to ensure you hve a CHANCE at getting a good card is supporting the local hobby shops. Get to know the owners and make sure you trust them. I have known owners that will let their friends/customers search their hobby packs. Some owners will post pictures of customers pulling good cards from their product. If yours doesn’t do this, encourage them to. That is the best proof that you and everyone else have an equal chance of getting the autographs and jerseys you are hoping to pull.
By supporting the local hobby shops, the only ones shopping at the retailers will be the pack searchers. The retailers will be forced to either crack down on pack searching to bring back “honest” customers or stop carrying cards. They will not be able to justify carrying them when they have to return 23 of the 24 packs they sell because a pack searcher took the only pack actually worth the $3.99 price tag.
Hey Travis,
Thanks for the read. Pack Feelers will definitely go to retail stores, buy an entire box, pack search for the hot packs, and then return the rest of the box. Do they also do that with blaster boxes? Although it’s entirely possible, I highly doubt that it’s worth any one’s time to do so. Sure you can weigh the blasters just like weighing packs, but it’s harder to detect the slight weight changes in boxes of packs than in packs of cards. Blasters are also shrink wrapped, so if they wanted to open the blasters and search the individual packs they would have to either re-package the box in shrink wrap or return the box without the wrapper. I don’t know about you, but I’m not buying a blaster that isn’t shrink wrapped.
Like all retail products though, don’t expect too much from blaster boxes. You’re really just better off saving up for a hobby box.
Jason,
There are other ways we hot pack selectors find items. You are correct with some of the ways mentioned. I have nearly 3,800 game used and about 1,100 autographs that I have pulled and will eventually give to my 2 boys. I often show kids in Wal-Mart or Target how to pull cards because I remember how I hated not getting good stuff. Kids are why this hobby was started, and I feel the price of packs have killed this for the younger generation. I obviously show them very basic ways of pulling packs without scales and other means. Decoy cards are not commonly used, and when they are they done in obvious ways by the companies. If you do your research before buying a pack most people will realize this due to where the patch would be on the pack. I will share another basic way for your young readers sine I feel that your doing this for the right reasons. If you get a shirt or soft cloth and grab a pack between your thumb and forefinger and slide your fingers up and down both sides of the pack you may feel a void in a pack indicating a game used card. Many present day companies are doing bulk autographs and are getting lazy, and they use stickers that are just stuck to cards at a later date. When you are using the above technique you may feel a raised area, which could possibly indicate an autograph. The main thing is to always do your research before buying. Take care and good luck!
Very well written article. In reading the comments it reminded me of the political issues of our day. There are multiple views on the same subject. I am completely against pack tampering that damages the pack or cards in any way. However, I’ll grant some leeway to those that want to feel the packs to try to pick the right ones. I have seen several packs with fanning damage. I can see where the bend and twist method could be done without damaging the packs but I would like to discourage its use as it increases the odds of damaging the cards.
Thanks for opening the discussion.
Jason,
Thanks for taking the time to post a very interesting article. I searched for this “Hot Packs” topic to alleviate some confusion about them. I was looking for an indicator on the pack itself, and then realized that this was somehow another “scam” and blemish on the industry. I disagree with “Brandon” above in that he feels YOU are giving away this technique - this is no secret. In fact, even back in the 1970s, deceptive individuals were opening and resealing wax packs!
In my opinion, which is probably shared by thousands of others, the sportscard hobby will never, ever recover from the 1990s and return to a kid’s collectible. There are too many problems to analyze here, but sorting packages to re-sell as a guaranteed jackpot, is a major black eye. This lottery mentality is not criminal, but is rather unethical! In the end, only some get richer, and the true collector - loses! Who is the greater victim here? The manufacturer? The outlet store? The hobby shop? The card shark? …Or the collector? Now, who among these is the real winner?
Things will not change, until the card companies do something about it. But, why should they - especially now, when their revenues are so high! Come on, $100 packs! $1,000 boxes! Oh, they will stop this madness - right! We only have ourselves to blame. We have to educate ourselves and make better decisions. I learned the hard way.
I used to spend a few hundred dollars a month on NEW cards, simply as a collector. I could not even sell those cards for a few dollars today! What was HOT then, is NOT now. Take Griffey, Jr. for example - now with a Book Value (BV) at 1/3 to 1/5 off of what he once commanded. Canseco, Justice, McGwire? All big money cards a decade ago. Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Joe Montana? Where have they all gone?
Sure, its all supply and demand, and today’s stars are where its at, but I laugh at those who can afford to buy a $1,000 Lebron card, instead of using that money for a few NM Topps cards of Bird, Magic or Dr. J! Better yet, put it in the bank or buy your parents something nice.
One final thing as I close, is another pet peeve of mine - “some” (not all!) hobby/sportscards shops. How about these:
Hobby shops who routinely open up a “few” boxes of brand new product and display the fruits of their labor - at full BV or more! Then, when you ask for the same product, they either: 1) Do not have any more available, but they can build team sets or offer you singles (from the half dozen boxes they opened)! or 2) They have the product marked up significantly over the release date MSRP - like a few extra $ per pack / $25-50 a box! and 3) Get visually upset when you decide to only buy some supplies and/or marked down cards from yesteryear, ultimately passing on the new stuff! Sorry, $7-10 for 5 cards is no longer “smart” to me. LOL!
Thanks for taking the time to view my rant and thanks, again for a very interesting post! Happy collecting and Peace! Steve - heroesandhobbyz.
How much does a pack with an auto weigh and how much does a pack with a gu weigh?
I feel that your response to Brandon above misses the point - telling him how you were ripped off as a child does nothing to prove that Pack searching is ethical. Simply put, random other wrong doings do not justify all wrong-doing.
Also, whether it is your intention or not, you would be naive to think that this article does not contribute to pack searching. Alerting the hobby about it is one thing, but going into detail about its techniques is another. There is a reason behind the taboo, and that is to encourage even less people than those who already do it to find out about it.
I appreciate most of the comments that are geared against this practice, especially the ones that realize the ultimate consequences to the hobby, especially the kids who are forced to buy a pack at a time, usually from retail stores.
Otis, where did I indicate that I was ripped off as child? I never was! Collecting as a kid was an absolute joy - unfortunately, today’s kid’s don’t have the same experience. Also, how did I indicate that pack searching was ethical? Especially when I stated, “This lottery mentality is not criminal, but is rather UNETHICAL” (please see above).
Next, I do not believe that I was naive in my opinion, as articles on “pack searching” has appeared for YEARS in publications like Beckett, Sports Collector’s Digest and Tuff Stuff. Even Toys R Us and Wal-Mart at one point (in the mid to late 1990’s) posted “No Pack Sorting” signs! There is no need to treat this interesting blog (site) like it’s about how to build a bomb or something so sinister.
You do however make a valid point, as questions like those from Jesse (between our posts) suggests! There will be those who look at this site for information on how to do things wrong, but I would hope those numbers are not that high. The only reason I happened upon this topic was to determine if my initial hunch was correct - that “Hot Packs” being sold on eBay were most likely the result of deceptive practices! I would never condone them, or support these sellers, as I have a law enforcement background and actually ran a sportscard shop in West Palm Beach several years back. Still, you a are most definitely entitled to your opinion. Happy collecting!
Steve
I am over fifty and have recently started collecting with my twelve year old son. It is difficult to justify the cost of today’s packs and boxes. Still I would suggest that fathers and moms that have an interest in collecting things and like sports use this as a positive linking activity. During pre-adolescence and adolescence there are natural individuation processes that deliberately turn parent/child relationships a bit opposing. I am finding that the common interest we share in sports and cards has helped keep our communication lines open.
As for the condition of the industry. Nothing stays the same and in corporate business profit is the only driving force. So if the market allows higher priced products and moves toward a bizzare place where the autograph from the same player is valued more just because fewer signatures were used in an edition and you paid $200. plus for the box. Heck its still the same authenticated autograph so why not group it all together in the universe of autographs. The market demand is completely fabricated and manipulated.
So how evil are those pack searchers? On one hand free market spririt would dictate that since its not apparently illegal this is a natural evolution for the purpose of generating higher profits by being more efficient. On the other hand, the image of some guy fondling packets of cards while hunched over a wall mart or target counter is almost too strange to do anything but pity the poor bastard that has dropped his self respect so low he probably has much more serious emotional issues. (Get a Life already).
And I am certainly not near being an authority on the card companies but from what I can see their rhetoric is for stopping this but they stop short of actually revising packaging and dealing effectively with weight differences. They remind me of what we know of the cigarette industry. They have historically placed packs of cigarettes on open displays near counters so that children will steal them and hence become replacement smokers. In a different way the industry enjoys profits from ethical and unethical folks - they all buy product.
I just hope the industry understands the aging out of the baby boomer market and the need to attract new hobbyists by providing reasonably priced products that retain their value